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Mr. Paterno, Mr. Cosby and Naivete  

passer58by 66M
1586 posts
5/7/2016 5:25 am

Last Read:
5/24/2018 11:13 am

Mr. Paterno, Mr. Cosby and Naivete

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redrockrascal 65M
23580 posts
5/7/2016 8:25 am

Most likely very few of us know the facts behind any of those cases. The country believed the woman in the Duke Lacrosse allegations was being truthful and more recently Rolling Stone reported on a case. Both turned out to be false accusations and screwed up the lives of not only the accused but people associated with them.

Being found guilty in a court is not guarantee of guilt either. Look at how many people have been released because of "witnesses" who have lied, of evidence was buried, etc. etc. In a case in TX a man was executed based on what has turned out to be debunked junk science.

The US has the "innocent until proven guilty" concept for a reason. Because we don't have the facts and people jump to conclusions like scared rabbits. Try spreading that message instead.

When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro.

The only thing we have to fear is fear itself.


passer58by 66M
4170 posts
5/7/2016 8:44 am

    Quoting redrockrascal:
    Most likely very few of us know the facts behind any of those cases. The country believed the woman in the Duke Lacrosse allegations was being truthful and more recently Rolling Stone reported on a case. Both turned out to be false accusations and screwed up the lives of not only the accused but people associated with them.

    Being found guilty in a court is not guarantee of guilt either. Look at how many people have been released because of "witnesses" who have lied, of evidence was buried, etc. etc. In a case in TX a man was executed based on what has turned out to be debunked junk science.

    The US has the "innocent until proven guilty" concept for a reason. Because we don't have the facts and people jump to conclusions like scared rabbits. Try spreading that message instead.
I don't disagree with your statement that we should assume innocence until guilt is proven. And I'm certainly not suggesting that Mr. Cosby should be convicted, sentenced and executed without a trial. My point is that because of the sheer numbers of complaints against him, the charges should be investigated and if they are found credible, he should be prosecuted if the law allows for it. (I don't know if the statute of limitations applies in his case) The last thing I want is the lynch mob mentality that is so prevalent. If no case can be made against Mr. Cosby, then my presumptions were wrong. I am open to that possibility. The Duke lacrosse case, if my memory holds, is that there was one accuser. Mr. Cosby has multiple accusers, last I saw it was over 30. And there has been this cloud over Cosby for years, there have been a number of people who, before these charges ever hit the light of day, were saying that he wasn't the man he portrayed himself to be. And you are right, we don't know the truth or the facts, we rarely do. But we can gather evidence and make the best decisions possible from that evidence. Any evidence will always be somewhat tainted, but we have to live with that and hope for the best. There is no doubt that it is a tragedy when an innocent person goes to prison, it should never happen and I would rather see a guilty person free than an innocent person wrongly convicted. I believe in the Duke case and in the Rolling Stone incident, there were political/social issues which were used to muddy the waters surrounding the criminal cases involved. Not that it excuses the errors, it doesn't.


passer58by 66M
4170 posts
5/7/2016 8:49 am

    Quoting  :

You are absolutely right that that is how they get away with it. I had to recognize that fact when it became apparent just what kind of a man he was. Part of me doesn't want to believe that kind of person exists, yet I know they do. It's just hard to accept, hence the "naivete" of wanting to believe the best in people.


passer58by 66M
4170 posts
5/7/2016 8:51 am

    Quoting  :

It's almost impossible to get all the facts. All we can do is base our thoughts and opinions on our own experiences and what we believe to be the truth. I try to stay open minded about any new information that comes out.


passer58by 66M
4170 posts
5/7/2016 8:51 am

    Quoting  :

Thanks, I'm glad you liked it.


redrockrascal 65M
23580 posts
5/7/2016 9:25 am

    Quoting passer58by:
    I don't disagree with your statement that we should assume innocence until guilt is proven. And I'm certainly not suggesting that Mr. Cosby should be convicted, sentenced and executed without a trial. My point is that because of the sheer numbers of complaints against him, the charges should be investigated and if they are found credible, he should be prosecuted if the law allows for it. (I don't know if the statute of limitations applies in his case) The last thing I want is the lynch mob mentality that is so prevalent. If no case can be made against Mr. Cosby, then my presumptions were wrong. I am open to that possibility. The Duke lacrosse case, if my memory holds, is that there was one accuser. Mr. Cosby has multiple accusers, last I saw it was over 30. And there has been this cloud over Cosby for years, there have been a number of people who, before these charges ever hit the light of day, were saying that he wasn't the man he portrayed himself to be. And you are right, we don't know the truth or the facts, we rarely do. But we can gather evidence and make the best decisions possible from that evidence. Any evidence will always be somewhat tainted, but we have to live with that and hope for the best. There is no doubt that it is a tragedy when an innocent person goes to prison, it should never happen and I would rather see a guilty person free than an innocent person wrongly convicted. I believe in the Duke case and in the Rolling Stone incident, there were political/social issues which were used to muddy the waters surrounding the criminal cases involved. Not that it excuses the errors, it doesn't.
The “sheer numbers of complaints against him” does make it seem more likely, but numbers and more likely are not the burden of proof in criminal law. The burden of proof is “beyond reasonable doubt”. That is exclusively the job of the courts – not social media. Unfortunately the investigations were hindered because the accusers did not report them in a timely manor. That was their choice.

The numbers argument can go both ways. Is it really credible that the “sheer numbers of” accusers (I believe it is 40 some now) for 30 years would all have the same reason(s) for not reporting? And only one would come forward in a timely manor – but too late for a r@pe kit.

The Duke lacrosse case became more than one accuser when a great number of the students essentially ran the lacrosse players out of town and suggested they be burned. And the prosecutor, who was running for office (a higher one IIRC – not sure), and the detective, played along by choosing to ignore, manipulate and withhold evidence. Those weren’t errors; the prosecutor was permanently disbarred from practicing law. In the Cosby case the current prosecutor ran for that office and used the Cosby case as part of his platform.

When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro.

The only thing we have to fear is fear itself.


wickedeasy 74F
32404 posts
5/8/2016 12:48 pm

people's opinions are formed by many things and often have little to do with facts. as outsiders to an "inside" story, we will never know the facts about Paterno's knowledge or lack of knowledge. Of Cosby's intent or how hard he pushed what might have been willing participants who are now jumping on what seems to be a class action suit.

an opinion is formed and often changes as more information becomes available. and while I am taken with the idea of wanting to come down on the correct side of an issue..........I FEEL like you might be trying too hard.

my opinion on Cosby is this.....if he forced them - shame on him. if they are panning for gold, shame on them. and since I will likely never know the truth, that's about as close as I will get to a valid opinion....

not so helpful, eh?

You cannot conceive the many without the one.


passer58by 66M
4170 posts
5/8/2016 1:47 pm

    Quoting wickedeasy:
    people's opinions are formed by many things and often have little to do with facts. as outsiders to an "inside" story, we will never know the facts about Paterno's knowledge or lack of knowledge. Of Cosby's intent or how hard he pushed what might have been willing participants who are now jumping on what seems to be a class action suit.

    an opinion is formed and often changes as more information becomes available. and while I am taken with the idea of wanting to come down on the correct side of an issue..........I FEEL like you might be trying too hard.

    my opinion on Cosby is this.....if he forced them - shame on him. if they are panning for gold, shame on them. and since I will likely never know the truth, that's about as close as I will get to a valid opinion....

    not so helpful, eh?
You're right, we are outsiders and won't know the complete truth any of these situations. My purpose in posting this was that I tend to give people the benefit of doubt and there have been times when I was wrong, based on the evidence that i now have. I'm not in any rush to judgment on any of these individuals and am, or try to be, open to new information on each situation. I base my opinion on what I believe to be true based on reported data and my own biases and prejudices. I'm not one to call for the heads of anyone accused of anything. I try to wait it out and let the system work through the problem With Mr. Cosby, I believe his behavior was most likely inappropriate, if not with all the women, but with some of them. I have no idea whether what he did was criminal or not and that is, and should be, left up to the judicial system. And, should it come out that each and every one of the women were lying, then I will admit to being wrong about him.


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